What is your position on horse racing track/gambling/concert venue?
How do you feel (pros/cons) about such a venue off E. Pecan past Gatlinburg and Bohl's Place/Crossing subdivisions. What are the short-term and long-term benefits and risks? [Link is to City Comprehensive Plan map showing tourism/entertainment district that includes E. Pecan. Track is planned for 200 acres near Northeast Metropolitan County Park near SH130.]
posted by PfCONA @ 9/13/2004 01:29:00 PM
17 comments
17 Comments:
What is the difference in Sin Tax and Sin Revenue?
Everyone opposed the sin tax to educate our children, including Councilman Reese (Rightly so). Therefore, how can you support the idea of sin revenue to generate revenue for our city. As I have discussed with Mayor Callen and Councilman Kurt Reece, the city elect of Pflugerville has let down the citizens of Pflugerville, if this is indeed the best that they can do for the city to generate revenue. Not only do I wish that my vote for Kurt Reece could be voided for City councilman, I will Personally make it a priority to have him and any other city elect that supports this travesty to not be in any other future political office of the City of Pflugerville. Does anybody know is it too late for a recall? I challenge you Mr. Reese and Mayor Callen Did either of you have prior Knowledge of this issue while running for office in the last election. Because if you did I believe you deliberately deceived the citizens of Pflugerville by not bringing this issure to the forefront of the last election. I believe you did not fulfill your duties to bring this issue to the attention of those that you represent. A council members duty should be to represent what is in the best interest of the majority of his constitiuency and not the best interest of a select few that may be the financial benefactor of your decision. I challenge any city councilman and mayor or any city elect for a public response on your prior knowledge of this issue and how long you have had knowledge of this travesty of injustice. I, Brenda Hernandez, have the oppinion that this issue is not something that everyone have just recently been informed.
Building the proposed Horse Racing Track would be detrimental to the Pflugerville community... not only in the short-term, but also in the long-term.
In the short-term, the City of Pflugerville will spend several millions of dollars to annex the land where the proposed Pflugerville Horse Race Track would be located, to expand infrastructures (roads, utilities, etc.), and to provide additional services for this new area (additional police, increase in city staff, etc.). This will be done with the mistaken expectation of tax revenues to offset that expense.
Three similar horse race tracks in Texas went BANKRUPT within a year of their first race (source: Texas State Comptroller):
1. Brady (never recovered)
2. The Sam Houston Horse Race Park
3. The San Antonio Retama Park
To emerge from bankruptcy, these horse race tracks asked for tax abatements and tax reductions on the gambling proceeds.
-Thus, the return on the investment of the City of Pflugerville will be ADDITIONAL DEBTS that will not be repaid for years to come, since the expected taxes from the Horse Race Track might never come.
-Two other horse race tracks are located within about one hour of this proposed new location. So, financial projections cannot use the greater Austin area population as a reliable base. The customer base to be used will thus be a lot smaller than the one used for the Houston & San Antonio horse race tracks which both went bankrupt,anyway!
-The Manor Downs horse race track is less than 10 miles from the proposed Pflugerville Horse Race Track. Most likely, the Carr family, owner of Manor Downs, will fight hard to retain their customers.
Long-term impacts:
1. Gambling leads to an inevitable INCREASE IN TAXES brought about by social problems incident to gambling - such as higher welfare, law enforcement, and prison costs. For back-up statistics, see p. 46 (impact on society -- welfare, unemployment, bankruptcy), p. 48 (cost to judicial system), p. 52 (total cost summary table), p. 54 (nation-wide overall economic impact of gambling) in the "Gambling Impact and Behavior Study, Report to the National Gambling Impact Study Commission, April 1, 1999, by National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago".
2. Legalized gambling promotes ILLEGAL gambling. James E. Ritchie, former director of the Presidential Commission on the Review of the National Policy toward Gambling, says legalized gambling stimulates illegal gambling. (See this and other evaluations in Larry Braidfoot, Gambling: A Deadly Game, Nashville, Tenn.: Broadman Press, 1985, pp. 85-88.)
3. Legalized gambling leads to ORGANIZED CRIME. FBI Director William H. Webster said, "I pointed out at the time that Atlantic City was going into casinos that we knew of no situation in which legalized gambling was in place where we did not eventually have organized crime. “I really don't see how one can expect to run legalized gambling anywhere without serious problems. Gambling is still the largest source of revenue for organized crime." (The American Legion Magazine, Jan. 1985, p. 14.)
4. Gambling can have a NEGATIVE IMPACT ON EMPLOYERS. Since gamblers are more likely to be fired than non-gamblers, employers pay the price in search and training costs of 10 percent of the annual salary for each employee replaced. See pp. 44 & 45 in the "Gambling Impact and Behavior Study, Report to the National Gambling Impact Study Commission, April 1, 1999, by National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago".
5. Race Track Gambling Establishments typically expand to OTHER TYPES OF GAMBLING (namely card games and electronic gaming machines). In addition, they have SOUGHT RELIEF FROM TAXATION from state legislatures. See page 75 in the "Gambling Impact and Behavior Study, Report to the National Gambling Impact Study Commission, April 1, 1999, by National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago".
6. Per the "Gambling Impact and Behavior Study, Report to the National Gambling Impact Study Commission, April 1, 1999, by National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago," the impact on communities by
a gambling establishment are as follows:
--More jobs? Yes - but low-paying and/or part-time positions with no benefits (p. 77);
--Increase in debt problems and/or bankruptcies (p. 77);
--Large number of working poor (p.77);
--Homelessness (p.77);
--Problems with low-income housing or housing stock (p.77);
--Increases in youth crime (p.78);
--Increase in overall crime, including "white collar crimes" such as forgery and credit card theft (p.78);
--Domestic violence (p.78);
--Increases in child neglect (p.78);
--Increase in "family stress" due to gambling (plus increase in divorce, as
mentioned above) (p. 78);
--Increase in suicide (p.78);
--Increased need for general mental health services for gamblers and their
families (p.78);
--Substance abuse (p. 79);
--High proportion of drug-related crime, arrests for public intoxication and DWI, youth drug use, and addiction in general (p.79).
The City of Pflugerville needs to be fiscally responsible. The short-term and long-term impacts of the proposed Pflugerville Horse Race Track are not promising. Remember what you parents taught you: “If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.” There is no easy money in life!
(Posted by David & Rebekah Calabuig)
i am a long time resident of pflugerville... i feel it is real funny on how the previous posts are stated...is this not america where you can start a business on a piece of property....i buy the land i build the building i sell the goods....sound like this is the way you want it... you can buy the land build the building and sell the goods BUT I GET TO CONTROL YOU.....you guys want to control someone elses rights...i believe this property is out of the city limits (right now) so why dont you go after the racing commission...not the city....if the track is built and goes under...make sure we dont subsidize the owners... let the owner invest their money and if it fails .... guess what? the owners lose their money.... if it is successful city of pflugerville might get a little taxation out of it....
i am not really for this racetrack but i will not condone what the naysayers are saying:
1) track will bring in crime: wake up folks...there is crime in pflugerville (organized & disorganized)
2) track will bring in more drunks...HELLO...beer joints has always been the main stay of pflugerville
3) building the track near residential neighbor hoods....how much seperation do you want? there is business right now in pflugerville that are a major problem...for noise...(hanovers)
4) VLT - crack cocaine?.....nice scare tactic...i have seen the effects of crack cocaine..and trust me you cant get that from a VLT...but you can get addicted to gambling...no doubt...and we already have gambling.. you can get addicted to cigerettes..alcohol..sex...eating...
lets get real...you get help if you are a addict.....
let your voice be heard...but do not say you have the right to control me... ill listen but you cannot make me do anything i dont want to....
I am opposed to a race track in Pflugerville. The track will not be a sports venue as much as it will be a gambling center. Our existing track, Manor Downs, holds races only three months out of the year (Feb. - Apr.) while it is open for video betting on other races every week of the year, six days a week. A new track would likely have a similarly low number of actual races and focus on betting and other gambling as authorized by the legislature.
A concert venue would be more in-line with Pflugerville values. I like that idea. We do need some entertainment venues.
Clark Meier
1207 Mountain View Dr.
Pflugerville
I feel that this racetrack would ONLY be beneficial if it were built as a general showgrounds, where organizations could hold events such as concerts, agricultural shows, and fairs etc. The casino part of this proposal is definitely a bad idea in my opinion. Renting the grounds out should generate enough revenue to assist in the upkeep of the venue, and I feel it would make Pflugerville a much more attractive place.
I feel that there are mostly cons for locating a horserace track in P-ville. Those cons are that most racetracks don't financially benefit the communities they are in and then the city has to offer tax abatements to assist the racetracks thus cutting back on tax dollars the city actually receives, gambling is the only way that the racetrack will make money, and this location is close to the center of this town therefore this venture will affect all of what is now P-ville. Does P-ville want to be known for gambling and horse racing? I think we all want a different image for P-ville and this doesn't fit with our good schools and family friendly city image that we presently have. We all know the city will grow and develop but why is our city council looking at this offer when so many others will follow this one? Let's all show up at the Racing Commision meeting on November 22nd and say what we think. We need to all be on the same page and realize that this should be an effort to save our city's image and not an effort to promote the beliefs of one religion or another or combat gambling at a state level.
I find it interesting that Plugerville Pfamilies Pfirst's ONLY agenda is the ractrack. I would think that this organization would take a stand on other issues also, not just the racetrack in order to stand as a viable organization. As it stands now, it is an organization with one agenda. In a town where there is a gun range less than 1/2 mile from the local high school, and where they are currenly building one of the largest alcohol halls around that will host "bikini/naughty school girl/jello wrestling contests" and "extreme dodgeball".
The "pfamillies pfirst" appears on the outside as someone with an agenda, whether it be religous or environmental, and not caring about anything else.
They used children to pickett their agenda at the last City Council, children who clearly were to young to understand the complex issue at hand. The PPP should target the parents of these kids, who are using them as puppets to get their agenda heard. I have never heard any negative reaction to traffic caused by the 28 soccer fields at Travis County North Metro Park, maybe because it aligns with their own children's sports agenda. Round Rock doesn't complain about their largest beer hall, the Dell Diamond. The sports environment disguises the huge liquor bill this venue
posts every week during the season. Also, the businesses on 685 in Pflugerville benefit from this crowd. Is that immoral?
For those that do not want a racetrack, it would be better to come up with what exactly would be a better fit for this land?
1. A La Fronteria?
2. Plugerland amusement park
3. PflugerDance - Large C&W dance hall (Beer uh oh)
4. Dollar stores and Auto part store like the rest
of Pflugerville.
Next, you have to ask yourself, what will be the biggest draw that would pay the city taxes. I think it
would have to be something VERY unique in order to draw people off of I35 to visit. You can't bank on the fact that the new roads will be in place in 5 years, or 7 years, or whether they will be heavily travelled by cars or trucks.
If the Pfamilies Pfirst organization has a solution rather than just a sticker and facts that are weighted to support their agenda, then they might have an impact. They should have come on strong in the beginning, now I think they wont have an impact at all.
Town Hall Meeting on Race Track Issue
I find it ironical that PfCONA is attempting to bring to together people of varying views to find common ground in a meeting that is scheduled for November 8th at the Pflugerville Justice Center. The idea of a forum is to listen to the citizenry of the community that are often left out and not often heard. At last weeks council meeting our elected representatives not only heard but made an observation from a majority of the group present on the issue of a race track and moreover gambling and casino type lottery machines which would not be an appropriate fit for our community. They listened to both sides which presented valid and insightful statistics. However in the end Council with the support of our Mayor voted to expedite the processing of moving the Austin Jockey Club closer to getting approval by the Texas Racing Commission. If listening for common ground is at the heart of our democracy, then democracy failed miserably at last week’s council session in regard to the voices of the majority present. The City council was not looking for common ground. If in fact the intent of PfCONA on November 8th is to bring together opposing views to find the commonly that will be in the interest of the general public it would behoove all of the city council to be present. The intent of this meeting in effect would be moot. The City Council in all of their wisdom and in spite of an overwhelming outcry has decided to move forward with their agenda. . The community can still have input by sending cards and letters to the Texas Racing Commission, P.O. Box 12080, Austin, TX 78711. The commission will meet November 20th to consider the Austin Jockey Club’s request for moving their permit to Pflugerville. Send comments or be in attendance.
Sport or Gambling
At last week’s council meeting there were several presenters that made reference to horse racing as a sport and how much fun it was. I don’t think anyway was objecting to horse racing as a sport, the objection was to gambling and particularly the VLT machines that will come with the horse racing. Why do they have to be linked together? Horse racing is a sport, VLTs or electronic gaming is not a sport it is flat out gambling. As a Class 2 race track Pflugerville Downs can only race a limited number of days per year. I believe the early indicators were that P-ville Downs would only have 30 races. OK that narrows down about 30 days. With VLTs the race track promoter can operate gaming machines 365 days a year. Now if you use a little logic it is obvious that the developer is betting on VLTs not horse racing. The race track is the spring board for VLTs’. People wake up and smell the roses.
Show me the money.
I was one of several opponents to the development of a race track in Pflugerville. I did not hear anyone say they didn’t want development in that area and I heard no objection to annexation. Moreover there was no objection to bring in commercial ventures that would increase the city’s tax base. The opposition was to the Race Track for a number of issues that could be detrimental in the long term of our community. One of the reasons that Mayor Callen and Councilman Blakeslee made reference to is the fact that their platform was for no new property taxes. Sometimes we have to bite the bullet and understand that if the community wants more then we have to pay more. In fact a carefully thought out tax increase with very clearly laid out objectives might be a healthy shot in the arm. The cost of almost everything has gone up all around us. At some point we run out of money, we have to cut back on spending, and say no to new projects. Our city is growing by leaps and bounds. We have to meet the financial challenges of the future. I believe that more efforts need to be made by the Economic Development Corporation in Pflugerville. A tax increase may be the answer.
Well, I have watched the city council meeting twice now, and I am quite
surprised at how many citizens that spoke were FOR the racetrack despite what I have been hearing from the noracetrace.com website and the press it has generated.
The most interesting part of the meeting was the speech made by the creator noracetrack.com, who gathered other people's 3-minute time slots to increase his speaking time in front of the council.
He mentioned several times that the group he represented did not have
ANYTHING against horse racing, but rather the Video Lottery Terminals that could become legal in Texas soon. He also expressed his opinion that he thought the VLT law will NEVER pass anyway.
So what is confusing here is that this website has gotten lots of press lately about Pflugerville Pfamillies Pfirst being AGAINST the racetrack, but their spokesman announced to the city council he had nothing against the track, but the VLTs that MIGHT populate the facility.
What he hasn't mentioned at all are the "Horse Wizards" video terminals that are legal at racetracks in Texas already.
If he has nothing against the current racetrack facilities, then he supports those gambling video terminals?
Maybe this group should change their name and attack their real agenda, VLTs.
If their are any news reporters reading this, I invite you to check out the Plfugerville web site to watch the city council video.
I urge everyone to participate in tonights discussion on the racetrack. The noracetrack.com folks will certainly be there with their stickers and using their children to picket their cause. Dont let this get in the way of healthy discussion of pros and cons.
noracetrack.com is trying to manipulate your vote and the city council. I heard that they are really FOR the racetrack, but they are using the citizens of Pflugerville to vote against the racetrack to promote their fight against the Video Lottery Terminals. This is a hidden attack on your intelligence, so dont let them cloud your mind about the real issue.
Live racing purses increased from 2003-2004 despite what you may hear from them.
My unbiased cross section survey showed that most people would vote for the racetrack. noracetrack.com would like you to believe that EVERYONE is against it.
I just want people to hear real facts about the issues in order to make up their own minds.
ATTENTION:
noracetrack.com has posted a request on an austin website to collect signatures for those opposed to a racetrack in Pflugerville. The request was signed "noracetrace.com" (no real name) and it mentioned their opposition to the racetrack. To my knowledge, the website has stated it is only against the Video Lottery Terminals that could eventually be put into the racetrack facilities. It also says that racetrack.com would pick up these petitions and present them to the Texas Racing Commision. Using Austin residents to load up his petitions to try to persuade the Texas Racing Commission to relocate their Austin Jockey Club from it's scheduled location just outside of Pflugerville. Presenting phony petitions to the Racing Commission to manipulate their decisions should be illegal, right? Someone help me out here
From a 2001 report (haven't found the latest report yet)
2001:
In the agricultural sector alone, racing produces $1.1-billion in spending, $314-million in personal income, and nearly 9,000 permanent jobs—about 6.6% of Texas’s total reported agricultural employment.
Pflugerville and surrounding area to the east still has a big interest in the horse and agriculture industry. The racetrack has a potential to create more new jobs in these sectors as well as the establishment itself.
Live Racing purses have increased since last year. There has been a dip in simulcasting, but ALL entertainment sectores have experience a slump since 9/11. Last years live racing increase is showing signs that people are out spending money again.
noracetrack.com is also using the Pflugerville city name (Pflugerville Pfamillies Pfirst) to define a club (not sanctioned by the city) to push ONLY this agenda. This should be reported to the city as it is creating quite a name for Pflugerville.
The TRC should be notified of this....
Wow!
I found a great website about the Pflugerville Racetrace. It looks like it will have some good information here, as it's only just started. It
has some interesting information about that strange organization i've been hearing bad things about, pflugerville pfamillies first.
oh here's the site
http://pflugerpfuture.flywebs.com/
The pro-racetrack website is incredulous. It is more slanted than the noracetrack.com website. Also, watch out for all the popups. Fortunately, I have blocking software or it would have loaded the spyware GAIN to my PC. The guy running this must be desparate to profit from this. Take a look at his desparate attempt at self-promotional antics at jdshow.com. A self professed liberterian who wants state sponsored gambling. THis is one mixed up puppy.
As usual, an "anti racetrack" post that's off base.
The person running the PflugerPfuture site is NOT the person at the jdshow site. Both happen to be for the racetrack. Both seem to have very different reasons for being for it. Welcome to the real world. A world of diverse citizens, with diverse interests.
It would be far more beneficial to the Pflugerville residents if people would stick to facts, rather than wild (and inaccurate) speculation.
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